Talk:Black Hebrew Israelites

revise

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Remove falsely believe. There is no proof to this statement and studies if found in reputable sources and scholars are now reviewing the latter 67.197.45.79 (talk) 04:30, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

I think "falsely" is a recent addition. While the BHI's ancestry claims are patently ridiculous from a historical or scientific persepctive, this is a religious claim and we do not say "falsely" about religious claims no matter how unlikely they may seem to people who are not of that religion. Wikipedia does not pick sides in matters of theology! To pick on this one religion by saying "falsely" while not doing the same for the equally unlikely claims of many other religions would be unfair. I have removed "falsely", thus restoring the status quo wording.

I am not going to remove "believe" for obvious reasons. That would be to endorse a religious claim as fact and we don't do that. --DanielRigal (talk) 13:58, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Actually, the ancestral claims of Hebrew Israelites are based in reality. Genetic testing of my own DNA as an African American has proved that I and very many of my direct ancestors from Africa are directly descended from Ethiopian Jews and we are all distantly related to the Ashkenazi Jewish population from Medieval Erfurt, Germany that has produced the Ashkenazi Jews who constitute much of the world's accepted Jewish population. The historical records are also rife with accounts that described the Jewish people of antiquity as descendants of Ethiopians and Egyptians. Hebrew Israelites are falsely accused of historical revisionism, as many believe African American claims of descent from Israelites, Nubians and Egyptians to be hogwash, but these groups among others are exactly who my DNA and the DNA of my enslaved ancestors in America and my ancestors from Africa are revealed to be genetic matches for when our DNA is directly compared to ancient samples that have been excavated and tested. Bar-Moshe (talk) 00:53, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Snore. The genetic analysis around this stuff is as dubious as the underpinning scripture. But as mentioned above, 'falsely' shouldn't be appearing anywhere, per MOS:DOUBT. Everyone's claims, as supported by reliable sources, should be portrayed fairly and with respect to NPOV, and unsupported accusations should not be allowed to be cast in any direction. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:31, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Issues: Inadequate content, anti-Blackness, erasure of Black Jews

@User:Doug Weller, @User:Admiral Farmer, @User:Antiok 1pie. The article as exists has multiple issues I'd like to address. First, it should be obvious that BHIs are in no way, shape, or form Jewish with the exception of those few BHIs such as Capers Funnye who have converted to Judaism. That BHIs are appropriative and that some are violent extremists is also obvious. However, I would advise caution when editing this article to avoid racial bias on Wikipedia.

The BHIs originated at a time when many white Christian denominations openly preached that Black people are the cursed descendants of Ham. That is the historical backdrop of the BHI claim that Black people are not only NOT cursed, but rather the chosen. That this historical background information is never mentioned in the article is astounding and is evidence that the article is insufficient. That the voices of actual Black Jews are mentioned nowhere in the article is another glaring omission. Black Jewish writers such as Shais Rishon, and I'm sure others, have written about the BHI appropriation of Black Jewish identity.

The sentence in the opening paragraph about the SPLC considering BHIs to collectively constitute a "hate group" is contextless and I would argue inaccurate. The SPLC's views can be listed in the paragraph where the SPLC and ADL are mentioned. The SPLC states on their website that "SPLC uses the term Radical Hebrew Israelite to differentiate from the greater Hebrew Israelite faith...SPLC no longer refers to these groups as solely Black Hebrew Israelites...there are non-radical sects of the Hebrew Israelite faith who identify as Black Hebrew Israelites". This indicates that the SPLC does in fact distinguish between extremist and non-extremist BHI sects, a nuance that the current sentence obscures. It would be judicious to acknowledge these nuances to avoid anti-Blackness, stereotyping, and the erasure of Black Jews. I have also placed notices on the talk pages for WikiProject African diaspora, WikiProject Countering systemic bias, and WikiProject Judaism, to alert editors to some of the concerns I have raised. I hope we can improve the article together with these questions in mind. Thank you. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 04:34, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Paragraph breaks would've helped make this a bit more legible. That said, the point on SPLC seems valid. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 16:05, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

I think that the sentence It has been described as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center doesn't really fit in the second sentence of the lead (although I don't have strong feelings about it). I will move it to the last paragraph, along with the rest of SPLC's comments, and add some more secondary sources, including one which confirms that the SPLC describes the Black Hebrew Israelites as a hate group. Antiok 1pie (talk) 00:49, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Why call them black? Who are the White Jewish people?

Why call them black? 76.137.30.102 (talk) 02:10, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

We name articles using the names that the reliable sources refer to them as. Further details are in WP:COMMONAME. DanielRigal (talk) 18:36, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

The other names are also mentioned in the lead. "Hebrew Israelites" "African Israelites" etc...JamieBrown2011 (talk) 08:59, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Does anyone know if Messianic Judaism is the same thing as BHI? JamieBrown2011 (talk) 06:53, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

No. BHI is its own thing, separate from MJ. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 18:06, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Street Preaching

"This primarily gained notice in the news through their street preaching that purportedly targeted students of Covington Catholic High School (Kentucky) in January 2019. "

The street preaching was well known well before this event. That may be where the editor first heard of them, but for larges swaths of society, that was not how they popped on their radar. 2601:41:4300:78E0:296E:FB89:1716:2F74 (talk) 21:00, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Excerpt: The Origins of Ashkenaz, Ashkenazic Jews, and Yiddish- 21 June 2017

None of this has anything to do with the BHIs. This page is for discussing our article about the BHIs not for random stuff.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The Origins of Ashkenaz, Ashkenazic Jews, and Yiddish- 21 June 2017[ https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2017.00087 JewScholar (talk) 06:36, 13 December 2023 (UTC) "The largest study to date of ancient DNA from Jewish individuals reveals unexpected genetic subgroups in medieval German Ashkenazi Jews and sheds light on the “founder event” in which a small population gave rise to most present-day Ashkenazi Jews." © 2023 by The President and Fellows of Harvard College Ancient DNA Provides New Insights into Ashkenazi Jewish History JewScholar (talk) 06:42, 13 December 2023 (UTC) Please explain how these apply to this article, and the changes you want to make to the article. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 16:52, 13 December 2023 (UTC) Sorry to burst your bubble , but that is not necessarily accurate, the first modern human to be discovered with Jewish DNA was discovered by archeologists, and scientists was discovered to be of African decent. Meaning that the first remains predating before the birth of Christ was black. Blacks are the only race that carry the Eve Gene which means we give birth to other races , other races dont give birth to our race. It is discovered the original Jerusalem is located in Ethiopia, after the Romans invaded Israel casting our the original lost tribe of Judah which were of African decent , our ancestors were sold into slavery (Atlantic Slave Trade) some isrealites scattered to other parts of ISREAL remained hidden in the outskirts , the Israeli President even said it himself " the Isrealites left black , but returned white " . Ashkenazi Jews (meaning to be like) the real Jews stole our culture , and named it a religion , then erased our history after selling our ancestors in slavery on all 4 corners of the earth. They took and appropriated our ancient Paleo Hebrew , and incorporated with Yiddish because the Ashkenazi (so- called) Jews could not understand, interpret , or speak our ancient Paleo dialect. These so called scholars that perpetuate the systemic erasure of black isrealites culture seem to not want to recognize that the jig is up , and we are "Woke" now, they will continue to pull the wool over peoples eyes to deceive us into believing we are not the real isrealites if the bible , yet they still continue to plant false images of christ in the minds of unsuspecting victims who are of the white race , as a matter of White Supremacy. Such as (Cezar Borgias a 14th century gay cardinal , son of pope Alexander who was a known tyrant, Mongrol, racist, and war criminal) who wanted the world to worship whites , this changing the true image of the black Christ to a white gay man, boyfriend/lover of Leonardo Davinci who painted the very first image in the 14th century , then plastered it up in churches all around the world , a son who later wrote a letter confessing his disagreement with his father using his image to put out to the world . This Pope knew the original image of Christ was black , but did not want to bow to slaves. It is the 400 year curse of the true black isrealites for betraying Yahweh. Whites are fulfilling a biblical prophecy that Yah created them to do which is punish the true isrealites with poverty , who are the most impoverished ? (blacks) , enslavement who were the most enslaved? (Blacks) Who were the wandering Lost tribe of Judah? (Blacks). Who are the most hated race all over the world (Blacks) people fear what they don't understand, they HATE what they ENVY what they ENVY , they KILL If you don't know , I suggest y'all watch riots , they were telling you then , so y'all finding it out now treating it as if it's something knew , isn't knew this has been known for decades. What these scholars won't tell you is whoever controls the tribe of Judah , Controls the WORLD , as to why the US is the most feared , as long as the US Keeps control of BLACKS , which they don't want to give up that control , by making slavery if Blacks legal only if we commit crimes , but that is NOT the case , Black Isrealites from the tribe of Judah are often enslaved without us even committing crimes , we are framed by slave patrol you call POLICE in america who were created by the Government using Black Irish who has white skin tones to carry out their dirty work making deals with them to accept them as white if they can show them how much brutality they can influct on their own people of darker shades, just like Asians , indians, of brutalizing us, killing us , trapping us into false arrests , aIt is these scholars , these scientists, white america that is just finding out. White America should not be mad at blacks for taking back, and embracing our ancient culture , we are God's chosen. We don't need permission , or indoctrination into Judaism from Ashkwnazi Jews (Thieves) who enslaved our people paid for the ships to transport Jewish slaves from ISREAL to the West, and stole our land , language , and culture , ISREAL president Nutinyahoo has banned his people from doing DNA tests to prevent from being found out that they are NOT the true Jews. DNA test of president Nutinyahoo that Came to surface revealed he is of (Irish, European, Arab) decent. Arba are not Jewish. Arabs, Europeans, and Romans , colonized Africa enslaving black isrealites , stealing our land (Khemet), and renamed it as we all know today to be (Egypt). They began breaking off parts of Africa , and making it apart of Asia. The Most High Yah warned us" You will be taken away from ISREAL in ships to all four corners of the earth , you will be sold into bondage , but not for money". Well the average cost of a slave depending on the build was anywhere from 1 cent to $1,000.00 , so the slavers violated Yah's commandment. Killing our babies , and children ( using our Isrealite children as Alligator 🐊 bait ) was not Yah's will , meaning they betrayed him too, He warned us about the Ashkenazi Jews " For those who say they are Jews , but are not , Are the Synagogue of Satan" our history was white-washed, our kingdoms were stolen from us , our lands, our resources were stolen from us until Africa put an end to it. And Africa is a name created by European Colonizers who took over certain parts of our country when they invaded. And are still there till this day. They call themselves moores , stealing that too , the original moores were of African Decent. Our true country's name is (Alkebulan). We are not African Americans , we are Alkebulans. But what DON'T whites steal. They steal everything , and claim it as theirs. Europe had a black ruler , until whites killed them and stole their identities, King Charles , Queen Elizabeth, was not what , ancient history shows she was of black decent. How did a black queen 👑 turn into a white redhead overnight ? Just like how black isrealites left ISREAL black , and returned white. People need to sit back and think , now that the truth has been revealed , these so called scholars want to now change the image of Christ to a middle eastern man. The synagogue of Satan puts in overtime to deceive. Whites should not be focusing on blacks who are the true lost tribe of Judah , but focus more on your own people , asking, you all should be all up in their faces demanding to know why they keep continue lying to you all. Not us. We are the real isrealites , we are not extremist sects , we are not just out of nowhere coming out with this , YOUR people have known this for centuries, hiding it from US, and YOU! Criticize them don't criticize us. We are trying to get a handle on this too trying figure out how to get our culture back. 2600:6C52:6900:16DD:3CD2:30C4:303B:1189 (talk) 18:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Israel United In Christ

I think Wikipedia would benefit from either an article or a section in this one about IUIC, which may be the largest current BHI group with membership of around 10,000, all over the globe. Which do others think would be best? I can add content but I haven't created a new page before so I would rather not make that start by myself. This article provides some basic referencable info: https://newreligiousmovements.org/i/israel-united-in-christ/ Yintov (talk) 10:37, 10 November 2024 (UTC)